Needing rest is still health. If the coworkers were having a discussion about butchering a deer or a medical procedure with graphic details I dont think its wrong to ask them to take it outside. If someone wants to wear a crucifix necklace or have crosses or whatever sort of Jesus paraphernalia in their cubicle, fine. (If you have an especially good article Id love the share, otherwise Ill search.). ), its not really something major for a company. Look for them whispering and briefly looking at you to judge. I think there are micro cultures/work cultures at play too. I do remember when that happened. Im sorry I cant be more specific! Its under 5% of the workers who dance the line but if you do you get increasing discipline which can end with termination if it keeps happening within a certain amount of time. Its a good story to tell yes! It's not really a new topic of course, but we've had some issues brewing for a while and I need to deal with them. If your employer is decent, they will just wish you well and make sure youre ready to come back when you do. Then let them address it with her boss. This is the very culturally biased opinion. So in a system with limited sick days, I could see those that in reality need 12-20 days a year, but only get 12, take exactly those 12 and drag themselves into work in an unfit state for the other days they are sick. For that reason, we respectfully ask everyone on our team to remember that people come to work with many different viewpoints. However, I do not completely trust her. Theyre the workers benefit to use. This month Charlie answers the question "What is the role of faith at work?". Thats exactly what I had to do I had a monthly infusion for a chronic condition, so theres my 12 sick days right there. A coworker asked me to not talk about religion, I did after - JustAnswer The whale article had a link to a story about a woman being attacked and injured by an otter, and frankly Id rather take my chances with the whale! Usually surgeon will just not clear people. I also let her know I had been preparing documentation to allow others to cover in my absence. I spent several years getting a migraine almost every weekend due to the difference in stress patterns between the work week and days off. So I only take a day off for migraine when its so bad I cant drive. It is utterly absurd and like I said in another comment, I suspect that the bonus (why does this bonus even exist? I absolutely think the heads up is a good idea, but its lean towards telling them you have no idea when theyll schedule you, that youve heard stories of people getting 2 months of warning, or people called up about a sudden opening next week, and that its important/crucial enough that you will definitely take the first available option. However, by ignoring the problem, we further exacerbate it. Can You Be Fired for Talking About Religion at Work? It could be suspicious not is suspicious . Some of them aren't, and some people feel uncomfortable having to listen to other people telling them what to believe. And she did get the benefit of the doubt. its that being sick the exact same number of days every year and that amount equating exactly to the amount of days they get paid for is a bit unlikely. All rights reserved. If its about certain people abusing a policy and the company is punishing EVERYone, that actually makes it worse. advice by accident! Carolyn Hax. The LW gives the reason they do it: The boss gets a bonus if all sick days arent used. Ive met enough of them. Ask if theres a way to not be moved or moved to somewhere equally as distant from him as you are now. (I worked somewhere that required exempt staff to use PTO in 4-hour increments. More, or less, you're a bit more likely to alienate your religious co-workers by talking about their religion, than you are to get them to question their deeply held beliefs. I wish you a speedy recovery and a hassle-free time away from work. Many business leaders avoid discussing religion in the workplace because they fear offending those of different beliefs, but that is a narrow view of the place faith holds in people's lives . HR said a coworker's religion "didn't count," employer wants me to lie whats the pettiest thing youve done at work (or seen done)? Its ridiculous and dangerous. I feel like [Diety of choice] is really smiling on me today, the way my toast landed butter-side-up! might set your teeth on edge, but its reasonable office small talk. Normally folks are only allowed a day or two in a row of holiday time at that time of year. Its like the perfect attendance record in elementary school that was always won by some kid whos parents sent them in sick (and managed to never be *so* sick that they got sent home). If so, then what is the actual time spent together if you do an afternoon? All else being equal, Id always prefer more info than less, but Im not sure theres much they can do with it here. update: do I need to give up an impressive business contact whos hitting on me? The thought of having to sit and listen to him casually proselytize this religion at work is giving me anxiety! within the official limit. It is still illegal to dismiss for a protected characteristic but they do not have to justify why they have fired you until you have been there for two years. Don't get hooked The first step when a political topic is raised is to notice and manage your own emotional response. Best of luck with the op. Maybe she had a chronic condition and had been dragging herself to work every day while feeling terrible and looked forward to the day she could take off each month to recuperate a bit. Im sorry I cant give more details about it because I dont know much, but I thought it would be better to tell you something rather than nothing. Definitely an extreme example to share with HR director though. Have you said anything to your coworker directly? Youre right- I was talking about the situation in JOs comment and not OP2, but I didnt specify that in my comment. James Talarico Is a Deeply Religious Democrat Who Just Might Be the Usually vacation time is the amount that companies need to pay out, so that does have an impact to a companys finances (they need to keep a certain amount in reserve so they can pay out vacation time if X number of employees leave at once). Skip your slot for reasons of work busy season and you risk everyone involved in scheduling it being mildly salty at you and also not getting another slot for years. You give them the days and they decide when to use them. I have had my surgery 8 years ago this year, have been in online groups since before then and have never heard of anyone who has able to return earlier than 4 weeks in my own European country (in the US it might have been sooner, because of the lack of paid sick leave). It makes sense in terms of Big boss gets bonus if not all sick days used. The WTF starts there. But we didnt have sick days. This is a BETA experience. This is a perfect script to use on a reasonable person, but from what the LW wrote, their HR person isnt particularly reasonable. Currently we accrue sick days, but can only start dipping into them if were out for more than 3 days. Besides, folks like that often have other performance issues that managers can point to without getting into sick days. I felt threatened and harassed, which has caused mental distress on me. The fact that some employers would be all Woe is me about that type of situation is truly disgusting. Obviously there wasnt much they could do with the information at the time, but I think it helped that Id already mentioned it when I got a call from the hospital asking if I was free in 2 days to have the surgery! If its still not resolved, then you can go to your own manager and say, Hey, I find these long, off-topic conversations really distracting. I always try to plan fornot the worst, but not the best. or anyone who is just more prone to getting sick (weaker immune system, folks with kids especially little ones, and any other factors that boost chances of needing a sick day). And if I take four in a rolling calendar year I get a verbal warning. In many places around the world such offences are against the law and might get the offender and the company in trouble. People are often less flexible than they should be. I think you absolutely need to address it with her first. But OP would be opening up their colleagues to it too. I pushed back hard- and it was dropped, but I was very stressed out about going over 10 days. I disagree with a lot of their beliefs, to put it mildly, so I experienced lots of discrimination and microaggressions towards me growing up. With a little patience, we can learn a lot about one another including the faith and family traditions that make us who we are. Signs Coworkers Are Talking About Me - 8 Secret Ones That's why it's important not to push our beliefs -- religious, political or otherwise -- on other people. WASHINGTON Chris Christie knew he was going to ruffle some feathers, but he did it anyway. For example , one where you were required to take sick leave rather than any other type when you were out sick. I hate the yes, we should do that sometime as code for no, because sometimes it means no and sometimes it means, Im happy to do that as long as you plan it, and though I can usually guess which it is, Im never entirely sure I was right. 0:28. Never mind this letter, which is really out there. The whale spat him out, but it was a wild story (he had scuba gear so there wasnt much danger of drowning, but definitely scary). Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi denied that discrimination against minorities existed under his government during a press conference with U.S. President Joe Biden on Thursday, despite rights . Another friend was absolutely flattened for two weeks and not great for another two after that. Over the course of three years, as each summer approaches, the HR director insists on us going kayaking together. Yeah. Wait a few days. Mental health is still health. I imagine the chronic shortage of doctors and nurses in this country, especially since the pandemic, is a contributing factor. I would frame it as, it sounds like hes proselytizing and I would be very uncomfortable sitting closer to that., Not to argue, because I started down the path youre on, but Alison did mention in the comments that content of the conversations could make it squishy (my words, not hers). Every action is premeditated to benefit themselves, at whatever cost or effect it. Question for Alison is it proselytism if the person isnt actively trying to convert you, but just loudly and frequently discussing their religion, their religious activities, etc.? Theres always the chance the director will react poorly, but it sounds like theyre someone who could react poorly to anything. I probably COULD have started working from home the same week I had surgery, but I definitely shouldnt have, so if youre able to take a full week, you should do that. Thats just how people are- a certain percent will take advantage of anything. Anyone who needs help saying "I'm not comfortable talking about religion" can get help from Faith in HR or from me. Because Id already had a heads up that it was going to be coming at *some point*, I was in a much better position to be prepared and shuffle things around as needed. And 20 years later, it seems that some workplaces have not moved away from that far enough. I know that the big boss gets a bonus if not all of the sick days are used, That is absolutely ridiculous and clearly the source of the problem here. But its unmarked and seen as default American culture, so its not RELIGIOUS, and that persons not punished for talking about their culture the way the others are. Friend inserts God into every conversation - Detroit Free Press By Matt Dixon. Many workers there retire with months and months of pto owed them! Or even better, just say that you want to keep work separate from the rest of your life and want to draw a hard boundary between them. Asking in good faith Dear Asking, First of all, it's against the law to treat a person unfavorably because of his or her religious belief, or nonbelief, points out Sharlyn Lauby, president of ITM Group Inc., a consulting firm in Gainesville, Florida, that develops training solutions. Would it be okay for me to gently push back against discussing this subject when it comes up? There are those that are rarely ever sick (maybe 1 day a year on average), and those that are sick quite a bit (more than three weeks every year). They couldnt meet an accommodation the surgeon put in place for me. Someone with a chronic condition might use up all 12 sick days every year and then use vacation days after that for any days theyre feeling too ill to work, or maybe they just need to work while sick the rest of the year once they run out of sick days. Maybe I can cross train someone with the notice Ive gotten, maybe I cant but I can at least plan a heck of a lot better than two weeks notice. In the late 90s, there was a listicle circulating via email, you know you are working in the 90s corporate America when and one of the items on it was something like taking a sick day means you either cannot walk, or are in the hospital. #2 We dont get written-up for using our available sick days per se, but at a set number of days taken during the year, we are given an official reminder of that number of days used/available and our attendance patterns are a part of our annual review process. And that theyre not using 13 days because they arent given 13 days? Basically because people who trample boundaries when its just them somehow often seem aware of boundaries that dont involve themselves. Blanket targets are harmful and no substitute for good management. I think they meant why not give all schedule details available, which I agree with. And she ate it. This is why you must agree to go kayaking with her. Or maybe Ill need *at least* x time because 1) it seems like everyone underestimates when theyll be ready to be back to work and 2) if you dont end up needing more time and can come back sooner, great! You will earn chits with her. It is part of who I am. How to Deal With a Coworker That Talks Too Much - Lancerbee Ask to move to a different cube even though we just all already moved? Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own. Yeah the the boss gets a bonus when not all sick days are used seems both counter to the nature of sick days and also incentive for this exact scenario to happen. Coworker talks about his religion all the time I have a coworker who talks about his religion frequently and loudly in our open-concept space. in New Jersey, disclaimer language in the handbook stating that its not intended to be a contract could be sufficient to rebuff such a claim. During that time I have: Once I had a manager who was not a reasonable person, and as soon as I found out I had cancer and would need surgery soon-ish (ended up being 3 months later), I told her what I knew. Im not sure what their pay out policy is though. On the one hand: what did she think would happen? If someone were to get fired for using their sick time (not beyond the 12 given days), would they have a case for wrongful termination, if, hypothetically, they didnt have any other performance issues? Coworker of guy requests the guy stop talking about religion entirely, and the guy refuses, saying hes legally entitled to talk about Jesus at work Second warning and we inform the guy that his job is on the line and he will be fired if this happens again. Then you get to the particulars. #4 UK-based HR here. :). "I am running because [Donald Trump] let us down . Talk about your faith freely with those who ask. What is the cultural norms in this company? [2] 2 Octopi literally drill into and tear open mollusks! They will help you document properly. I presume OP knows which one they are. Im not sure I think the company is any more fair or competent if this is the motivation. I am so glad I found your columns! You should first tell him clearly that you dont want to discuss religion at work. The benefit isnt designed as an entitlement, its designed as a safety net. my coworker told me I should be applying for other jobs, religion at They technically have 12 sick days, but in practice, its only 10. +1 That means as long as something won't cause the business undue hardship, infringe upon other employees' rights, or cause harm in some other way, an employer is supposed to allow people to practice their own religions as they see fit. Of course, we had reasonable human beings for managers, so that was a huge help. what can he possibly do to make it happen that he would need to get rewarded) has a lot to do with this weird as heck policy. The level of detail on the procedure is up to the employee but if anyone I managed was doing this and I had notice Id really appreciate it (also, if I did anything dodgy with their employment because of it Id probably be open to legal action). Or at least make sure he is quiet enough that he isnt including you in the conversation. 1 Approach the subject with an open mind. (All of which is highly variable depending on how the surgery goes, natch.). Full stop. Your faith, another teammates' love of skiing or another person's strong political views or passion for dog rescue are all important topics. The guy did stop talking about his religion but he would come in to my office from time to time and tell me I was persecuting him by stopping him from proselytizing. But then youre both at risk of legal action, on the behalf the third party. It matters, but not as much as LW2s company is making it matter. Given this overlaps our busy period, I wanted to mention it now, in case bad luck puts it in our busy window, as Ill have to accept the slot when it opens. If its not proselytism, then its really fact-specific. If hes just mentioning his church activities all the time, no. But thats why the question is literally, what can I do when we sit near each other, if he tries to talk to me about religion. I think its a Were cheap, utterly lacking in empathy or common sense, and think that an employees illness is entirely their problem.. Id agree with that approach. But that does bring up an important distinction. I disagree. You basically have three options. Freedom of religion doesn't mean you aren't ever allowed to have conversations about religion in your workspace; if her co-workers want to discuss the end times together they legally have the right to do so. One of the arguments in favour of separating sick leave and vacation is that if theyre in the same pool, people are more likely to come in sick so they dont reduce their vacation days. My surgery was different I was injured and had a disability due to the injury, so my boss already knew something was up but you dont need to get into details. Id worked with that guy in my previous job (he started out as my peer), had a lot of respect for him, loved working for him so much that I changed jobs to continue doing so no questions asked but all the capital hed built with me vanished over the course of that year. But even then, it is unreasonable to write somebody up for taking the full amount on one occasion. The Legal Implications of Witnessing at Work LW4 Im UK based as well, and started a new job last year whilst on the waiting list for an NHS operation. Ive decided to start thinking of my lost productivity when this or similar things happen as the business cost of having people in the office. She was surprised to hear it, but she understood and the invitations stopped. update: how do we fire someone who refuses to talk to us? A week or so later, during our 1:1, he started the call with hey you mentioned elective surgery, so i went and found some documentation about how the company can support you through that if you want. Which was really touching, honestly. I had a co-worker who was waiting for a kidney, and had been for years. What do I need to know about WORKPLACE HARASSMENT I read those stories! That doesnt follow from Texans example at all. CNN reporter explains why. Or theres always the direct but non-specific, Oh, thank you, but no followed by a pleasant smile and no further information. rather than get them worked up about busy season in specific, due to covid backlogs, hoped-for cancellations, and general urgency, it could realistically be anytime from this August to next March. Keep in mind that even with the most random distribution, call outs on Monday are going to happen on Monday. Does my company care? My medical condition was a protected characteristic as well. Hard agree, also some people have valid social/personal reasons for not wanting to identify publicly as ex members of a religious group. I was going to say something along the same lines: oh, Im sorry, but I try to keep my work and personal lives separate, followed by a vague line like Im sure you can appreciate that given your experience working in HR! or something else that alludes and appeals to her professional experience. After that, go talk to your manager. You wont get paid but also trying to take more time than allotted, even unpaid, can be a serious problem. Worse, the religion he is so keen to discuss is the same one I myself was raised in and left (due to the fact that I personally find this particular church to be dishonest and immoral). They might use all their sick time, then either come to work sick or take vacation time to cover the rest. My friends who have had it have had such variable recovery times. The Chipotle worker . Thatll give you a chance to say to your boss, when you take it to them after it doesnt work (sorry for the negativity) that you spoke to her about it and nothing has changed. Of course, that is nothing that LW can fix, but an organization with such a terrible policy is sure to have others. Came to say the same thing. I dealt with this issue as an HR Manager, too. She counsels that "bringing up these topics could make your coworkers uncomfortable or influence their opinions of you and your ability to do your job."5 Conversations about religion pour a barrel of unnecessary awkwardness and discomfort . Also, driving the particular movement of turning a steering wheel is really uncomfortable post-reduction and augmentation. Occasional bless formulations (bless you, oh blessed day, well bless me) also fall under conversation, not religious discussion. And someone mentioned at services is no different from, someone mentioned at the dog park.. How to navigate controversial topics in the workplace Speaking from personal experience and from knowing others who had the same surgery, one week post-op will still leave you pretty down for the count. How to deal with coworkers who constantly talk about religion - Quora #3: Mention a strained or torn rotator cuff has sidelined your kayaking enjoyment. If you do, then they do not in fact have X sick days. You could also say youre not up for keeping the moose from licking your car that weekend https://www.theweathernetwork.com/en/news/nature/animals/moose-beware-dont-lick-cars-youve-been-warned-jasper-national-park-alberta. But oh! I found myself really policing my own language so as not to spark any HR-worthy incidents. thats all. If she had a chronic condition , she would have been able to get the FMLA/ADA forms filled out ( and we had excellent insurance, so it wasnt the cost of a doctors visit) so Im confident that that wasnt the case. Heck, maybe it would fall under that, too. I made the mistake of under-estimating how much recovery time Id need though, as I felt guilty telling them Id need time off so soon after starting; so Id definitely recommend being generous when telling them about recovery time. This is so unreasonable for so many reasons, and our shop steward tried to argue that they negotiated four more PTO days to cover potential illness, and thats really generous! Sir, if you have a chronic condition and have a ton of doctors appointments or have to take time for your illness, you eat through those extra four days in months. Be sure to be as consistent as possible when intervening. updates: coworker prayed Ill return to Jesus, the awful corporate jargon, and more. Dont drive much. No." Really wish the conversation had ended there. This is important for the employees wellbeing but also important to keep them from getting coworkers sick, prevent accidents, etc. Like, a seder is something that secular Jews do, thats not inherently a religious practicebut because its Jewish, talking about it gets labeled as RELIGIOUS under a no-religion policy. I accidentally accrued (via rollover) about three months sick leave when I worked a job that was so consistently and overwhelmingly busy that I dragged myself in or worked from home for a few years running, regardless of whether I was actually sick. Do I let my manager know that I might need to take medical time off sometime in that busy window, just so hes got some warning in case it does happen, or do I wait until I have more concrete information from my surgeon on the dates? Some surgeries have waiting lists and lots of unknowns (hello, organ transplants!) Its not legal to keep saying that they are paying you $80K while paying $70K, though. But to assuage the concerns of the commenters in the same boat: if the surgeon says a month, I will in fact be taking a month!