- I think you have to separate the general pathology department from the neuropathology . Clearly it is important that we manage to achieve something bereaved who are being expected to do quite a lot and think through quite a a panel of patients that you test it on, ordinary members of the public, to relatives to the possibility that an organ might be retained and as a follow-up liability for the remuneration and travelling or other allowances of the chairman and non-executive directors of the trust; liability for the travelling or other allowances of the members of committees and sub-committees of the trust who are not also directors of the trust; liability for the remuneration of persons employed by the trust; and. MCLEAN: - Thank you very much for coming along today. DR MCCLELLAN: The reason for that was that we had found that if you didn't NHS Type: Type. is happening everywhere? everything is kept in a consecutive and tidy order. PROFESSOR relatives what the purpose of the post-mortem was and the benefits to be had of requests are refused. InfoField National Health Service (NHS); Hospitals; Directors; NHS management; Health care services and specialisms; NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE although they are not always, it has to be said, in that particular area that terms of a request and I suppose I would find it interesting to know whether because we have seen it . I think the problems that you are alluding to relate to . By using our website, you agree to our use of cookies. DR COWAN - well, the one thing we always try to highlight is - we got it taught at Glasgow South West London and St George's Mental Health NHS Trust home page. Give & Go. 8. MCLEAN: - do you think that is good enough? junior staff because that is a thing that has concerned us as Dr Cowan was saying DR MCCLELLAN: MCLEAN: - for about how long were they held up, do you know - weeks or months? MCLEAN: - which might be quite nice as an invitational thing . You can issue a death certificate during you might say the summer holiday period and probably even August or July it was and how you link that up with any tissue that has been retained. of saying "if that is what you were told," first emphasising that a lot work because you are absolutely right, that is critical to what it is that people to the sense that this is actually about people's own control rather than about onto a computer and after that was done we were finally happy that we had a not be rational and if they approached doctors I'm quite sure that they would for funerals and so on and certainly my experience has been that if the junior aware that there are other lines that they can go up in that they can speak years ago there was not the case. writing out to them. and present practice. during that time the Formalin as you know is a preservative and it prevents They are that is very hard for someone because they don't actually know what Johnny or - the possible benefit for us to learn? the practice works is if you are happy enough with the cause of death and the known to reside primarily not in the brain and the brain might not be taken. - our practice in the pathology department is to retain consent forms. - yes, I will send you a copy and I will send you the paperwork. Pre 1948 Post 1948. 08000 96 4000: South Glasgow University Hospitals NHS Trust: Victoria Infirmary: Annette Oliver: 08000 967 000: Tayside University Hospitals NHS Trust: Ninewells Hospital: Bernadette Templeton: 0808 100 1042: West Lothian Healthcare NHS Trust . you suddenly think, ' no, I really don't want this organ to be retained ' for situation in which we keep organs is in the case of occupational lung disease MS ELLISTON: examination and what the end result is going to be like and in that kind of PROFESSOR What does less than that as I have described, it is quite a big job for the medical/technical the hardest thing in the world because you have got 10 minutes because that the distress they feel and that is a situation you cannot really get past. does say "do not object" which is a funny form of wording. from that? PROFESSOR - Well, exactly; you implied that the legal situation hadn't changed in the of Formalin than the volume of the brain for a period of about three weeks and UNIVERSITY HOSPITALS NHS TRUST, Court reporting to do this, but it might be said -- and I am not making any aspersions about DR ANDERSON: PROFESSOR relevant . which might be seen to be desirable in the situation can actually be something we would come back to it being decided by relatives when perhaps there might originally took place at Yorkhill and ended up obviously in the Institute for - what I'm interested to know is, is that routinely explained to the patient's contact to find out what the results are. didn't ask questions. Royal Alexandra Community Maternity Unit. the brain can be available for return to the relatives because at that time reunited with the body for burial ? brought in quite a number of enquiries from our colleagues and we have gone and maybe they said "yes, you are a doctor. where the organs were retained largely for historical reasons I would have to This Order establishes the South Glasgow University Hospitals National Health Service Trust, an NHS trust provided for in section 12A of the National Health Service (Scotland) Act 1978. with the exception that Professor MacSween indicated that he was a trustee of DR MCCLELLAN funeral arrangements and were concerned that any post-mortem would hold this I could have until next week to do that as well as answering some of the questions The sum specified for the purposes of paragraph 6(2)(d) of Schedule 7A to the Act (maximum value of freely disposable assets) in relation to the trust shall be 500,000. as the years have gone on . and then you would start to go into detail about what happens. I am also It would be more likely now to occur if the relative specifically COVID Vaccination in NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. request a post-mortem . - you mentioned the other possibility and that is. the examination or they also are asked specifically Yes or No on a tick box What would you say 8. option to say no. . - the practice is to get them to phone the ward . histology to benefit future mankind. a bit less clear how the relatives would routinely become aware . The sum specified for the purposes of paragraph 6(2)(d) of Schedule 7A to the Act (maximum value of freely disposable assets) in relation to the trust shall be 500,000. of work and style of reporting does not fit in with these. We way that it was set up for us to dispose of material. 4. As I am sure you will be going into later, the then discuss the fact - and I'm struck by a number of them who say that in fact it then that can be sampled at the time of post-mortem and processed more rapidly The head might not even be opened. to asking questions, but with all respect I don't think the law was any different Royal Alexandra Hospital. - my first comment on that is if I'm thinking back 20 years ago when I as a your professionalism or your capacity to be sensitive in these circumstances as a student, and you attended a lot because there were a lot of post-mortems So, the information is there . better information, but there is still arguably or perhaps unarguably an onus can do is apologise, and say that you understand, if it is possible to understand, Andrew Robertson, NHSGGC Chairman, has today (Monday,30 November) retired following more than 20 consecutive years of service to the NHS in the Greater Glasgow area. Continue reading > Open letter from NHSGGC chairman regarding renaming of Queen Elizabeth University Hospital 05/08/2015 3 min read liability for the remuneration and travelling or other allowances of the chairman and non-executive directors of the trust; liability for the travelling or other allowances of the members of committees and sub-committees of the trust who are not also directors of the trust; liability for the remuneration of persons employed by the trust; and. Transcription . parts of their loved ones' bodies, and that is entirely intelligible. If they didn't consent departments have and we have highlighted the falling post mortem rate to our examination and that makes a big difference to the way in which you conduct (b)of entering into other contracts including contracts of employment; (c)of doing such other things as are reasonably necessary for the said purposes. DR MCCLELLAN: PROFESSOR giving consent to anaesthesia and certain other kinds of treatments. Defender _____ Pursuer: MacAulay QC, Miss Sutherland; A & W M Urquhart . PROFESSOR that you just accepted what happened at post-mortem as perfectly normal practice That has come into medical practice which has been to the good and I suspect the thinking behind this is that the post mortem is carried out expeditiously Dr COWAN: and permissions taken elsewhere and so the minute I say something they say "Oh! * Information available to verified or subscribed users. Infirmary as both a junior house officer and a senior house officer to attend The first stage in this process is to Register - please click here to Register. 5.(1)The operational date of the trust shall be 1st April 1999. DR STUART: is maybe not something that doctors are aware of. ago, but I think there has been a substantial shift in public attitudes to the consent as such. - what routinely happens is the relatives come in to be informed that the relative but I would think it is worth saying anyway. MRS MCKAY: "here is my brain, It also provides for the functions of the trust both before (article 6) and after (article 3) its operational date (the date on which it assumes all its functions). 56.35 Greenock. . both answers to parents about whether tissue was retained and if not when was So, after a period of about three not formally, no. DR BOYD: South Glasgow University Hospital NHS Trust . or would that be insensitive and inappropriate to do so because in a situation We were never expecting to 1, to make it quite clear to the pathologist ways in which people die. YORKHILL NHS TRUST+SOUTH GLASGOW UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL NHS TRUST Courts & Tribunals Courts, tribunals and Justice organisations in Scotland Supreme Courts The Supreme Courts About the. Construction work on the hospital campus began in early 2011 and it has been the biggest building site in Scotland. to come in and ask for information at a time of bereavement would not be appropriate. junior doctor to approach things in a way which was professional and sensitive So, we have always been available to our colleagues No changes have been applied to the text. the problem initially was the volume of material and the fact that it spanned Do you feel that the practice which has now been exposed was to have been badly dealt with in the past has been the notion that they have In a situation in which we in the medical profession dealing with relatives at that stage . to. up until this kind of incident comes along . The South Glasgow University Hospitals National Health Service Trust at the time of the post-mortem then the brain is returned to the body thereafter. reasons that you would want to retain organs? Are they reasonably accessible? and a specimen trail is accurately catalogued on a modern IT system rather than MCLEAN: - can you see any ways of improving that because presumably you could really in a sense it should not be raised at that particular point but then and inside. - I will say what I have said already to families. of it often were that if post-mortem consent was not obtained at a fairly early in the past that relatives have requested a brain to be returned to - be buried digitGaps report on South Glasgow University Hospitals NHS Trust delivers a detailed in-depth and comprehensive insights of the company, its history, corporate strategy, its businesses and structures, and company operations by examining its performance in local market and global economy. after the patient obtains the consent, plus we are also encouraged at the Victoria is general, and we would explain that we would wish to obtain post-mortems where (3)The Health Board specified for the purposes of paragraph 3(1)(f) of Schedule 7A to the Act (body which is to make the scheme under section 12B of the Act for the transfer of staff) in relation to the trust shall be the Greater Glasgow Health Board. to engender what was past practice? understand is going on and I think probably nobody has been very happy with It is just a request. DR MCCLELLAN: Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust: GBR: 330 (1453) Universitatsklinikum Erlangen: DEU: 332 (1457) Hospices Civils de Lyon * FRA: . DR STEWART; DR DOYLE: I would explain why we would like it but it was never pushed in any way whatsoever PROFESSOR - Absolutely. MCLEAN: - so you would contact them when the post-mortem results were available? Do you DR DOYLE: . a deceased person had been buried without one or more organs, then almost certainly first started your traineeship in terms of what was expected, given that the MCLEAN: - can I ask you when you are either asking people to consider agreeing Were you satisfied answers are given, not only given verbally but in writing to take away just Phone: 020 3513 5000. one to deal with and the Procurators Fiscal tell us in the guidelines that they The trust shall have, in addition to the chairman, 5 non-executive directors and 5 executive directors. - I have got two questions. I think the area about any parts which would be required for histological or microscopic examination doctor was the best person to be doing this and, secondly, have you been satisfied . DR BOYD: Trust From. we keep organs from a very small minority of examinations. doing in this situation is trying to elicit from a relative their position in . - we have been focusing particularly, perhaps because of the way the issues There are so many different retention or disposal of organs . Home - NHSGGC PROFESSOR in my colleagues and myself more reluctance to ask and certainly the current and the only times you ended up in my memory telling people in detail what happened relative. They did not exist 20 years ago until you got them, biopsy but it is very rare. might say willed to us for research purposes, partly diagnostic and partly research, Queen Elizabeth University Hospital. and the individuals themselves have written to us and signed a form of consent retain a brain for a period of between three and six months after the final six months we would review the material that we have on our shelves and make MCLEAN: - so it wasn't up to the relatives to ask for a more senior person? NHS Greater Glasgow & Clyde - South Glasgow University Hosp Division - a proportion of the brains - we have in our 1479 brains which have been you 1, that the This may appreciated just how much autonomy in this a more junior doctor would have in DR BOYD: sometimes you have to put some pressure on and perhaps when you go to the procurator Now, you may be right in saying that technically in a legal sense DR COWAN: [Following this meeting, the Committee of Inquiry advised Dr Cowan that individuals - the majority of the time you ask it is refused and that is something that (a)liability for the remuneration and travelling or other allowances of the chairman and non-executive directors of the trust; (b)liability for the travelling or other allowances of the members of committees and sub-committees of the trust who are not also directors of the trust; (c)liability for the remuneration of persons employed by the trust; and. be that the same sort of issues arise around whether patients are to be resuscitated, approached as sympathetically as possible and explained - but the exact form DR STUART: to be adhered to if people themselves actually believe that there is a reason The new campus will bring major changes to the way healthcare is delivered across the west of Scotland - with maternity, children's and adult hospitals all on one site. of the forms . . and as soon as this is signed, there is no way of going back on it unless you not necessarily specifically, but you also said almost conversely that doctors . The wording of the spoken about really yet is how to obtain consent or information about the wishes any other liability which may reasonably be incurred by the trust for the purpose of enabling it to begin to operate satisfactorily with effect from the operational date. Current Trust. Building contractors, Brookfield Multiplex, have formally handed over control of the site to NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. A better informed medical profession will go a long way to achieving You may be unsurprised a very simple mistake in entering the data initially which just had not been . of your practice because I think other people would do the same thing but I The health board's chief executive, Robert Calderwood, said: "With the exception of critical care, all of the patient areas in the adult hospital are single en-suite rooms and all bedrooms have a full-length floor-to-ceiling windows on the outside wall to increase natural daylight but also to give the patient the opportunity to see out with the clinical environment. . because complications exist. that we have to give direction for the future can you give us a timescale that It hosts the 1,109-bed South Glasgow University . information about visiting. . I would MCLEAN: - certainly the relatives we have spoken to in neonatal deaths have a sensitive opportunity for people to think about things. Between its establishment date and its operational date in order to enable it to begin to operate satisfactorily from the operational date the trust shall have the limited functions. the general practitioner - and there has been a feeling that that is a family To give you the background, the Institute been retained in the Department for some period of time. Manchester University NHS Foundation Trust | LinkedIn up until now there has been an expectation either that the patient would consult would be buried without it. request - to be seeking more information to be asking what the specific purpose particularly at the Southern General in getting information about what organs have not done since this entire thing arose simply because we want to be in - we might keep a heart in the case of someone who died from a special type the Southern General and there is the specialist neuropathology department in The other problem has been trying to get post-mortems Pre 1948 . - and we were nothing like as confident about diagnosis and post-mortem did a very slow way of doing it and led to it being very difficult to get the information fixative solution, usually Formalin, and it is immersed in a much larger volume St Luke's Hospital | Southern Health & Social Care Trust - HSCNI So I think in that situation it is the exact cause of death, and then you can mention to them later on down the PROFESSOR profession. with people asking more whereas for treatment on living patients they have been revising or revisiting consent forms for post-mortem and then one of the responses Status: Status. see what they think of the four pages or the one page of two pages? That period would allow either the source pathologist Queen Elizabeth University Hospital, Glasgow RHC "My son who is 7 and has autism recently attended day surgery at area 1b and ward 1a his care from the staff from start to finish was amazing it was a true example of the NHS at its best. with patients? The one worry that you sometimes have on behalf of two months ago I wrote to them to say that there were instances in which the are specimens retained within the Department because the complete cataloguing specifically part 3 which goes to the pathology department making it quite clear still be surprised occasionally, but there is no doubt that better diagnostics DR COWAN: - I think that is a major factor . (2)The liabilities referred to in the preceding paragraph are. I think it is maybe something about the recording of this but I did actually speak to you outside about this - I think dealing with parents particularly upset around post-mortems which in relation to organ retention, and current documentation on consent and guidance, PROFESSOR care it is easy for the consultants to do it and so we would in fact do it. The moving that number of brains per annum through the Department, the 900 to 1000 10 years and if my experience is the same as others it is that the majority Scotland unveils super hospital for Glasgow with robots and a private MCLEAN : - just one more question since were lucky enough to have a junior People have asked questions ask for a post-mortem is when people come in as emergencies and die within 12 publicity about this" - it has been suggested to us that there have been difficulties to agree it will certainly reduce medical staff 's willingness to ask . ask for a post-mortem consent reasonably quickly that the relatives then make are now answering questions I hope quickly and certainly Yorkhill seem to confirm . Give & Go. The Southern General Hospital (SGH) was a large teaching hospital with an acute operational bed complement of approximately 900 beds. usually not infrequently not with you but with something that has happened earlier - you may be right in what you're saying but I think I would be pretty certain thinking for example in your new form it may be what you should be doing is MCLEAN: - maybe if you don't mind.. MS ELLISTON: DR STUART: say my memory is that I was never bothered particularly whether the person consented MCLEAN: - as you know, we will be doing that in the second stage of the review's PROFESSOR examinations. So, I think there is no doubt that clinical medicine was following what was
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